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20071025 11:58:29 | jpc@jabber | jpc
20071025 12:01:00 | arno@irc | welcome to the routing workinggroup jabber/irc channel
20071025 12:01:31 | arno@irc | My name is Arno Meulenkamp of the RIPE NCC, I will be monitoring this channel during the session.
20071025 12:01:52 | dr@irc | dr has joined the channel.
20071025 12:01:59 | arno@irc | If you have any questions for the speakers, just let me know.
20071025 12:02:29 | arno@irc | Please include your name and affiliation.
20071025 12:02:47 | arno@irc | I will read out your questions on the mike.
20071025 12:02:57 | arno@irc | Thanks, enjoy the session!
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20071025 12:22:23 | arno@irc | Erik Romijn has finished his presentation about the RIS
20071025 12:22:30 | arno@irc | any questions?
20071025 12:23:06 | paul@irc | Did you figure out the problems seen with AS4_PATH/AS_PATH reconstruction, which you reported seeing in your RIPE-54 update? (Paul Jakma)
20071025 12:23:30 | paul@irc | ah well :)
20071025 12:23:56 | arno@irc | I will ask Erik seperately, one sec :)
20071025 12:24:25 | mark@irc | i just sent it to him :)
20071025 12:24:26 | arno@irc | In the mean time, Steve Uhlig has started his presentation
20071025 12:24:53 | arno@irc | ok, mark, will Erik answer in this chat?
20071025 12:25:01 | erik@irc | erik has joined the channel.
20071025 12:25:02 | erik@irc | hi :)
20071025 12:25:06 | erik@irc | me forgot to join
20071025 12:25:18 | arno@irc | Hi Erik
20071025 12:25:34 | arno@irc | there was a question for you
20071025 12:25:36 | arno@irc | Did you figure out the problems seen with AS4_PATH/AS_PATH reconstruction, which you reported seeing in your RIPE-54 update? (Paul Jakma)
20071025 12:25:49 | erik@irc | they disappeared some time ago
20071025 12:25:55 | erik@irc | but i saw them a few days ago again
20071025 12:26:05 | erik@irc | so it appears they still haven't updated
20071025 12:30:27 | paul@irc | updated?
20071025 12:30:36 | paul@irc | so you knew the prob?
20071025 12:30:41 | paul@irc | (i'll ask you later I guess)
20071025 12:30:54 | erik@irc | someone runs custom software
20071025 12:30:59 | erik@irc | and that is broken in this sense
20071025 12:31:05 | erik@irc | they asked me not to say who :)
20071025 12:33:18 | paul@irc | aha
20071025 12:34:14 | arno@irc | Steve has finished his presentation
20071025 12:34:24 | arno@irc | are there any questions?
20071025 12:41:19 | marcoh@irc | ~00
20071025 12:41:36 | mark@irc | marcoh, could you rephrase your question please?
20071025 12:42:01 | marcoh@irc | sorry
20071025 12:42:39 | arno@irc | Steve has finished his presentation
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20071025 12:42:56 | arno@irc | Up next, Geoff Huston, with an update on Damping
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20071025 12:50:13 | paul@irc | (pre-emptive question for Geoff):
20071025 12:51:26 | paul@irc | Might mechanisms like AS-PathLimit (Tony Li, et al) help alleviate the update-load from traffic engineering?
20071025 12:51:52 | paul@irc | If so, should we start encouraging vendors to implement AS-PathLimit? :) 
20071025 12:53:31 | arno@irc | Paul, I presume you want me to read this at question time, right?
20071025 12:53:35 | paul@irc | (Paul Jakma, Quagga)
20071025 12:53:35 | paul@irc | arno: yep
20071025 12:53:48 | paul@irc | (and Sun Microsystems)
20071025 12:53:58 | arno@irc | ok
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20071025 13:00:07 | paul@irc | thanks :)
20071025 13:00:29 | arno@irc | Paul, if you have a followup question, just let me know.
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20071025 13:02:20 | paul@irc | :)
20071025 13:02:30 | paul@irc | Log an RFE! :)
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20071025 13:02:47 | arno@irc | I'll let him know ;)
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20071025 13:06:01 | arno@irc | Geoff has finished his presentation
20071025 13:06:20 | arno@irc | Up now: A Beginner's Guide to LISP
20071025 13:06:29 | arno@irc | Dave Meyer presenting
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20071025 13:20:27 | paul@irc | Given Geoff's comment that internet is highly meshed (very short AS-path lengths), what reason is there to think new addressing architectures can change the fundamentals of the underlying topoloy? I.e. How will routing of locators avoid the same problems facing routing of IP today? 
20071025 13:20:55 | paul@irc | (Paul Jakma, Quagga / Sun Microsystems)
20071025 13:20:58 | arno@irc | ok, I'll ask at question time
20071025 13:21:03 | paul@irc | (question for after presentation, as before)
20071025 13:22:57 | paul@irc | I.e. how will this locators to be aggregated, without changing the topology?
20071025 13:23:42 | arno@irc | questions will be asked at the end of the next presentation, as it is the same topic
20071025 13:23:43 | paul@irc | how will this allow
20071025 13:23:45 | paul@irc | ack
20071025 13:24:06 | arno@irc | Darrel Lewis presenting: LISP transition mechanisms
20071025 13:24:28 | rhe@irc | paul: The way I'm reading this is that the locators will be isp-dependent, so it would be similar to a perfectly aggregated, one-prefix-per-isp world?
20071025 13:24:42 | erik@irc | indeed
20071025 13:24:55 | paul@irc | rhe: right
20071025 13:25:40 | paul@irc | rhe: which doesnt solve the scaling problems, given perfectly aggregated IPv4 would still be 135k odd prefixes, and increasing as fast as growth of fuill table
20071025 13:25:53 | erik@irc | no
20071025 13:25:53 | master@irc | ACK
20071025 13:25:56 | erik@irc | it's more than aggregation
20071025 13:26:00 | erik@irc | it's just having 1 prefix
20071025 13:26:04 | paul@irc | (I'd have to check my figures, aggreagted is somewhere between 120k and 135k at present)
20071025 13:26:14 | erik@irc | aggregation is just "prefixes which are next to eachother"
20071025 13:26:25 | paul@irc | erik: what was Geoff's figure of 1:1 AS:prefix in the DFZ?
20071025 13:26:41 | erik@irc | was that in this talk?
20071025 13:26:42 | rhe@irc | Right, but if the biggest growth is in site "pi" space, won't this take out that noise?
20071025 13:27:01 | paul@irc | erik: the background here is that highly-connected toplogies are difficult to aggregate
20071025 13:27:07 | rhe@irc | ...or at least push it into the mapping rather than the routing.
20071025 13:27:18 | paul@irc | erik: eg imagine a fully-meshed internet, yo couldn't do any aggregation
20071025 13:27:36 | paul@irc | rhe: aha
20071025 13:27:49 | erik@irc | paul, i could if i announce my /21 in a few /24's
20071025 13:28:08 | paul@irc | ok, scratch my question: I missed that aspect
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20071025 13:28:40 | erik@irc | the 128k numbers are based on "prefix A and B are announced with the exact same aspath and other properties" afaik
20071025 13:28:55 | erik@irc | (and prefix A and B can be aggregated as one)
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20071025 13:29:17 | arno@irc | paul, just so that I'm clear (I'm trying to get my head around how LISP would work exactly), I don't have to ask a question for you anymore?
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20071025 13:31:41 | paul@irc | arno: ignore my question, yes
20071025 13:31:55 | arno@irc | ok
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20071025 13:42:23 | arno@irc | Darrel has finished his presentation
20071025 13:43:09 | arno@irc | Next presentation: Critical consideration of AS-Dot notation
20071025 13:43:25 | arno@irc | by Paul Jakma, channeled though Joao Damas
20071025 13:47:54 | paul@irc | (as4 is integrated)
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20071025 13:49:34 | paul@irc | NB: The idea here is to get guidance from ops community on whether backwards compat either:
20071025 13:49:42 | paul@irc | - doesnt matter
20071025 13:49:52 | paul@irc | - matters enough to have RIPE NCC change
20071025 13:50:43 | arno@irc | SHould I add that on mike?
20071025 13:50:59 | paul@irc | arno: at the end, yes please :)
20071025 13:51:03 | arno@irc | ok
20071025 13:51:43 | paul@irc | (sorry, whether compability matters)(
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20071025 13:59:32 | arno@irc | we have overrun our time.. we are now closing the meeting. Thanks for attending and apologies to Paul for missing the time window to ask his first question.
20071025 14:00:13 | paul@irc | cheres
20071025 14:00:21 | paul@irc | Seems fairly clear from the meeting attendance.
20071025 14:00:39 | paul@irc | (attendees even)
20071025 14:00:45 | master@irc | buhuhu
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20071025 14:02:58 | paul@irc | master: ;)
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20071025 14:08:10 | master@irc | all the intersting stuff is shortened :-> 
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20071025 14:08:59 | rhe@irc | Sorry about the rushed discussions, folks.  We went from having plenty of time, to having a bunch of good presentations, none of which we wanted to drop.
20071025 14:10:01 | master@irc | -> time-dilation-wg NOW
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