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20040921 12:52:53 | dfk@jabber | dfk has become available
20040921 12:54:01 | dfk@jabber | I'll transcribe a bit
20040921 12:54:15 | dfk@jabber | session starts, jokes, blue (white) sheets
20040921 12:54:38 | dfk@jabber | axel has to update his presentation, he is done now (new kids of NCC staff)
20040921 12:55:09 | dfk@jabber | gentle snoring can be heared from the back rows .... ;-)
20040921 12:55:55 | dfk@jabber | presentation: ncc update and activity plan 2005
20040921 12:56:37 | BasicBaer@irc | *g*
20040921 12:56:46 | BasicBaer@irc | so i don'T miss anything not beeing there
20040921 12:57:08 | dfk@jabber | ncc received large chunk of v6 address space
20040921 12:57:19 | dfk@jabber | v4 address space distribution: business as usual
20040921 12:57:40 | dfk@jabber | (will someone tell me when the a/v feed is coming back on line please)
20040921 12:57:58 | davew@irc | davew has joined the channel.
20040921 12:58:21 | dfk@jabber | for african members: afrinic now evaluates requests together with the ripe ncc
20040921 12:58:52 | dfk@jabber | training: 65 courses planned for 2004: 44LIR 15 RR 6 DNSSec
20040921 12:59:08 | dfk@jabber | training: investigating new delivery formats
20040921 12:59:43 | dfk@jabber | two regional meetings have been donw. nairobi/kenya was a big success, mainly educating governments etc.
20040921 13:00:11 | dfk@jabber | plans 2005: middle east and somewhere around russia, all tentative
20040921 13:01:02 | becha@irc | becha has joined the channel.
20040921 13:01:23 | dfk@jabber | re-signing of standard service agreements: new service agreement, sent 3000 agreements
20040921 13:01:34 | dfk@jabber | approx. 25% updates contact details
20040921 13:02:24 | dfk@jabber | looking at russia specific problems, thereforemay not receive new agreeement
20040921 13:02:43 | dfk@jabber | african members also do not get new agreements pending afrinic establishment.
20040921 13:02:59 | dfk@jabber | if there are any issues: lir-contact@ripe.net
20040921 13:03:18 | dfk@jabber | "New LIR" process in effect since June
20040921 13:04:30 | dfk@jabber | in q4 a mini survey will be done evaluating it
20040921 13:05:00 | dfk@jabber | RIPE NCC Member Update #5 published
20040921 13:05:58 | dfk@jabber | new ripe.net website will be updated next week
20040921 13:06:42 | dfk@jabber | currently NCC is secretariat of NRO and ASO
20040921 13:07:04 | dfk@jabber | myASN 1.0 released / being demonstrated
20040921 13:07:49 | dfk@jabber | TTM and RIS are being operated by operations people
20040921 13:07:54 | dfk@jabber | DNSMON will be
20040921 13:08:20 | dfk@jabber | working towards early CRISP prototype
20040921 13:08:54 | dfk@jabber | LIR portal database integrateion improving
20040921 13:09:09 | dfk@jabber | IRRToolset will be transferred to ISC
20040921 13:10:33 | dfk@jabber | new baby get announced 
20040921 13:11:06 | dfk@jabber | k.root-servers.net: deployed local nodes in Doha and Milano (#s 5 & 6)
20040921 13:11:36 | dfk@jabber | the amsterdam instance is available via IPv6 now.
20040921 13:17:23 | dfk@jabber | .....
20040921 13:17:33 | dfk@jabber | sorry, was disctracted
20040921 13:18:02 | webmaster@jabber | webmaster has become available
20040921 13:18:22 | nathalie@jabber | nathalie has become available
20040921 13:18:36 | dfk@jabber | a/v feed should be working again.
20040921 13:18:43 | dfk@jabber | transcript stops
20040921 13:19:35 | evilmarq@irc | evilmarq has joined the channel.
20040921 13:20:10 | webmaster@jabber | inc
20040921 13:21:19 | becha@irc | hi, webmaster, nathalie, dfk :) 
20040921 13:21:37 | nathalie@jabber | Hi all
20040921 13:21:51 | webmaster@jabber | Hi B!
20040921 13:22:19 | becha@irc | hi J :) 
20040921 13:23:22 | becha@irc | this is great, i feel like i'm right there with you! (in manchester and in the office ;) - but i'm in my own sleeping room :) 
20040921 13:23:43 | becha@irc | can't turn the sound on, since i have a guest from serbia sleeping here.. 
20040921 13:24:00 | webmaster@jabber | :-))
20040921 13:24:10 | dfk@jabber | headphones .....
20040921 13:36:17 | becha@irc | to dfk: ah, wonders of modern technology.. i need to get some for alisa, soon, too! 
20040921 13:36:26 | webmaster@jabber | Spam warning at: www.ripe.net/ripe/about/maillists.html
20040921 13:37:44 | dfk@jabber | message relayed
20040921 13:37:51 | webmaster@jabber | thx
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20040921 13:42:00 | dfk@jabber | session closes
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20040921 13:42:13 | webmaster@jabber | /me waves
20040921 13:42:34 | becha@irc | becha waves back :) 
20040921 13:43:32 | webmaster@jabber | This music kills me
20040921 13:44:20 | evilmarq@irc | heh
20040921 13:44:52 | becha@irc | i just killed my speakers instead ;)
20040921 13:45:18 | becha@irc | people in the room over there should be aware that they are still on the camera! 
20040921 13:48:28 | webmaster@jabber | Address Policy is next, I am going there.....now!
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20040921 15:02:02 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
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20040922 06:29:11 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040922 06:29:11 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
20040922 08:11:34 | BasicBaer@irc | bye
20040922 08:11:37 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
20040922 08:36:33 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040922 08:36:33 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
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20040922 15:51:41 | BasicBaer@irc | bye
20040922 15:51:42 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
20040922 16:18:07 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040922 16:18:07 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
20040922 18:21:19 | BasicBaer@irc | bye
20040922 18:21:20 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
20040923 05:50:09 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040923 05:50:09 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
20040923 08:15:31 | BasicBaer@irc | bye
20040923 08:15:32 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
20040923 08:39:08 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040923 08:39:08 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
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20040923 13:05:56 | Adrian@irc | Hi, I am here from the RIPE NCC, if you have any questions that you would like asked in the session, please feel free to post them here
20040923 13:06:22 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | thanks adrian
20040923 13:06:54 | rhe@jabber | rhe has become available
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20040923 13:08:39 | peter@jabber | Presentation at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/presentations/uploads/ripe-49/ncc-services/jochem_de_ruig-ripe-40-billing.pps
20040923 13:09:09 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | sorry, but I didn't understand the audio fully: what kind are things are considered off-topic for ncc-services-wg?
20040923 13:10:02 | nathalie@jabber | Kurtis was saying that detailed discussion on the charging scheme should take place in the GM on friday
20040923 13:10:11 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | ah thanks, what a pity
20040923 13:10:33 | koopal@irc | thanks peter
20040923 13:11:11 | dfk@jabber | dfk has left
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20040923 13:11:57 | nathalie@jabber | I am sure you can make relevant comments, but its because the financial details are "owned" by the GM, so its more appropriate to go into details in that meeting tomorrow
20040923 13:13:07 | bruce@jabber | bruce has become available
20040923 13:13:27 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I'm currently not representing or even working for a LIR, so the GM is not for me :-Z
20040923 13:14:02 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I was pondering about making some comment/question about the anticompetetive nature of the time factor in the score algo
20040923 13:14:16 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | but perhaps this should be discussed on the mailing list anyway.
20040923 13:14:46 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | and I have to do some homework (archive searches, reading older discussions about that) first :-)
20040923 13:15:14 | nathalie@jabber | local-ir and ncc-co are appropriate lists to discuss this issue
20040923 13:15:36 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | local-ir is AFAIK closed to LIRs only, ncc-co I don't know at all
20040923 13:15:47 | webmaster@jabber | local-ir and ncc-co are _not_ discussion lists
20040923 13:15:54 | BECHA@irc | nathalie: sorry, it is not possible to discuss anything on local-ir, since it's an announcements-only lists
20040923 13:16:43 | marcoh@irc | nathalie: that mail you mentioned about the gm, where did that go ?
20040923 13:17:05 | nathalie@jabber | i sent it to local-ir and ncc-co.  did you not receive it?
20040923 13:17:16 | Adrian@irc | ncc-services would be the best place for future discussions relating to billing.
20040923 13:17:33 | dominic@jabber | dominic has left
20040923 13:17:34 | nathalie@jabber | indeed, Adrian.  apologies to all.
20040923 13:17:49 | ntitley@jabber | ntitley has become available
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20040923 13:18:46 | marcoh@irc | nathalie: can't find...last mail I can trace on those lists is from Paul oon december 15th, but it might be that my filtering is broken
20040923 13:20:15 | ntitley@jabber | ntitley has become available
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20040923 13:20:25 | nathalie@jabber | could be.  i can forward you the last mail on the GM if you like
20040923 13:21:09 | marcoh@irc | nathalie: please
20040923 13:22:23 | marcoh@irc | (marcoh@nl.demon.net)
20040923 13:22:48 | nathalie@jabber | done
20040923 13:26:17 | koopal@irc | huh,members without allocations?
20040923 13:27:03 | vlevigneron@jabber | vlevigneron has become available
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20040923 13:27:04 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | did anyone besides me noticed, that a standard ISP (v4 /21, v6 /32, ASN) can't become extra small? :-|
20040923 13:27:21 | marcoh@irc | nathalie: thanxx
20040923 13:28:51 | nathalie@jabber | pleasure :)
20040923 13:30:48 | koopal@irc | daniel: you can
20040923 13:30:52 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | heh, such a standard ISP is already MEDIUM when taking the max score of 2004
20040923 13:31:22 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | we'll see next month how this will end up
20040923 13:31:49 | arno@jabber | arno has become available
20040923 13:31:54 | koopal@irc | daniel: ok, then there are a lot smaller then such a standard isp
20040923 13:32:33 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | koopal: how? ASN=1, v6/32=1, v4/21=0.5... 2005-1992=13... 13*2.5 = 32.5
20040923 13:32:37 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | so it's SMALL
20040923 13:33:09 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | koopal: the point is that every year, new ISPs have to pay more.
20040923 13:33:10 | koopal@irc | no v6 for example?
20040923 13:33:50 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | IMHO, a standard set (ASN, IPv4 default alloc, IPv6 default alloc) should be fitting into extra small
20040923 13:35:27 | marcoh@irc | problem there is that defaults are getting smaller and smaller
20040923 13:35:27 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | also, IPv6 allocations "cost" about the same as IPv4 alloc, although they pose almost no workload on RIPE hostmasters for assignment validation, in contrary to IPv4
20040923 13:36:09 | marcoh@irc | I personally feel that PI/ASn should be more expensive
20040923 13:36:26 | marcoh@irc | the requestests for that are growing
20040923 13:36:56 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | to gain what? keep competiton out of the market? ;-)
20040923 13:37:09 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | or because of generated work load on the NCC?
20040923 13:37:41 | marcoh@irc | nah..prevent people from saving money on not estabishling an LIR but register for a /19 PI
20040923 13:37:50 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | 1 ASN request is probably usually a 5-minute task for a hostmaster. one /21 v4 alloc will we work over years
20040923 13:38:18 | marcoh@irc | and as such also get passed a couple of assignment requests...
20040923 13:38:24 | jlawrence@irc | if new members initial category is extra small when does the size algorithm kick in.
20040923 13:38:25 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | marcoh: well, when they don't assign IP space to other end users, they don't need to become a local internet REGISTRY ;)
20040923 13:38:51 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | jlawrence: thought about this too, I guess the next sep30 then
20040923 13:39:04 | marcoh@irc | you can telll me that all those guys actually don't redistribute for different purposes or customers
20040923 13:39:29 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | marcoh: unclear.
20040923 13:39:50 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | marcoh: it's also not properly defined where to draw the line...
20040923 13:40:23 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | is having a /25 subnet with some shared housing for servers from a different company giving a need to become a LIR?
20040923 13:40:45 | marcoh@irc | that's the problem...it's quite unclear what they do with the space...once you get a large PI block, you're free and you don't have top pay anything for all those nice services we get from the NCC
20040923 13:41:04 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | well, you don't take any services then anymore too
20040923 13:41:14 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | so why pay for something you don't use
20040923 13:41:20 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | a PI owner receives no service from RIPE
20040923 13:41:25 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | NCC
20040923 13:41:33 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | except having an entry in a database
20040923 13:41:40 | koopal@irc | maintaining rev dns for example
20040923 13:41:44 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | and the sponsoring LIR for the request pays for the request
20040923 13:42:20 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | well, I could live for a small yearly service fee directly paid by the ASN/PI holder
20040923 13:42:26 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | s/for/with/
20040923 13:42:39 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | for this database/revdns maintainance
20040923 13:42:59 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | and perhaps a somewhat larger initial fee for the alloc request process itself
20040923 13:43:00 | marcoh@irc | hard to register if they don't are a LIR...you can't really trust the database
20040923 13:43:47 | bruce@jabber | be nice if it was on a cost-recovery; ie, your delegation had X% of our total traffic, ergo, you owe us X% of what it needs for us to exist.
20040923 13:44:01 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | /me will post a change proposal within the next few months which will also take NCOs into consideration a little bit more
20040923 13:44:02 | marcoh@irc | like I said, make it more expensive to actually move people on becoming LIR and follow the slow-start mechanism instead of trying to get a big chunk of PI at once
20040923 13:44:09 | Ruud@jabber | Ruud has become available
20040923 13:45:13 | toshi@jabber | toshi has become available
20040923 13:45:29 | BasicBaer@irc | bruce: do you want to ruin us? ;)
20040923 13:46:37 | ian@jabber | ian has become available
20040923 13:46:45 | koopal@irc | bruce wants more work with a very complicated technical scheme
20040923 13:48:06 | bruce@jabber | koopal: no, but if the ncc operates on a cost-recovery basis, that would be the 'fair' and highly impractical method.
20040923 13:49:20 | ian@jabber | ian has left
20040923 13:58:57 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | yes randy, this is how it usually goes ;)
20040923 13:59:08 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | "we just bought XYZ and fired their staff"
20040923 13:59:26 | koopal@irc | I don't think a standard format will help for mergers
20040923 13:59:30 | marcoh@irc | Daniel: want to have the /AOL relayed ?
20040923 13:59:31 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | (just kiddin)
20040923 13:59:43 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | marcoh: no, it doesn't really add to the discussion :-)
20040923 13:59:46 | koopal@irc | as merging the ip database is probably the least of the problems
20040923 13:59:51 | marcoh@irc | is anybody relaying, by the way ?
20040923 13:59:54 | koopal@irc | feel free to relay
20040923 14:00:40 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I've seen a merger in germany where getting the IP database of the taken-over ISP in order was a 2yr process, no kidding.
20040923 14:01:01 | koopal@irc | and the customerdatabase and provisioning database?
20040923 14:01:09 | koopal@irc | it all fits together
20040923 14:01:12 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | similar mess, but quicker
20040923 14:01:47 | koopal@irc | don't forget the second line
20040923 14:02:00 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | then again, the technical data was probably merged with more love to detail and correctness than the administrative data :-(
20040923 14:02:07 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | (which has bitten later on)
20040923 14:02:18 | koopal@irc | o well, never mind, will respond on the mailing list
20040923 14:07:35 | koopal@irc | you always have the mailinglist to discuss in between
20040923 14:09:28 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | yeah, discussion here is of very limited value
20040923 14:10:56 | jlawrence@irc | Do we need 2 entire days to discuss policy ?
20040923 14:11:04 | marcoh@irc | yes
20040923 14:11:10 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | yes
20040923 14:11:19 | koopal@irc | yes
20040923 14:11:28 | koopal@irc | because it is not only adress policy
20040923 14:11:38 | koopal@irc | but also dns policy, db policy ....
20040923 14:11:44 | arno@jabber | but do we need single track?
20040923 14:11:58 | koopal@irc | not sure
20040923 14:12:02 | marcoh@irc | I would prefer a single track
20040923 14:12:24 | marcoh@irc | can be 2 tracks for ops
20040923 14:12:32 | koopal@irc | there can be things in paralel probably
20040923 14:12:38 | marcoh@irc | but policy definetly has to be single rt
20040923 14:12:38 | koopal@irc | ops can certainly be tracked
20040923 14:13:01 | marcoh@irc | if you have multiple tracks on policy things get breally difficult
20040923 14:13:30 | koopal@irc | policy is not only adress policy
20040923 14:14:14 | marcoh@irc | wow
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20040923 17:04:27 | BasicBaer@irc | bye
20040923 17:04:28 | BasicBaer@irc | nickname changed from BasicBaer to reaBcisaB
20040924 06:11:40 | reaBcisaB@irc | nickname changed from reaBcisaB to BasicBaer
20040924 06:11:40 | BasicBaer@irc | hello everyone
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